Metroplexity

Ok, here's the basic situation:

For PvP, some attack types cannot be defended against effectively.

Without rare/donation/one time content, here is the best bonus attack or bonus defense you can get from equipment you can modify these more with effects, but for the purposes here equipment will show what I'm talking about.

Etheric: Defense: +25, Attack: +27, Difference: 2
Fire: Defense: +13, Attack +10, Difference: 3
Melee: Defense: +16, Attack +19, Difference: 3
Ranged: Defense: +13, Attack +17, Difference 4
Stealth: Defense: +11, Attack +21 Difference 10!

Stealth Power can be boosted by another +20% with Soft Wind, which puts it even more beyond the pale compared to the other options. Please, add more (and more powerful) stealth defense options? This seems to take some of the balance out of PvP.

There are some some real costs associated with using stealth in PvP, though, which help balance things. Equipment that adds to melee, ranged, fire, and etheric power often also add to defense or have other useful effects (like the TZR chipdeck). If you want to max out stealth power, you have to give up pretty much entirely on defense.

Another issue is that it's hard to build an all-stealth deck to make 4 technique chains, let alone chains of 5. This is because a very high proportion of stealth techniques work best as openers, but you can only have one opener per round. Sure, you can make a mixed deck, but then you need equipment, etc. that adds power to all the different kinds of techniques you're using.

Remember also what Kinak said on the most recent podcast, namely that there's a lot we don't know right now about the high end of combat. Stealth might also be balanced by high-end ranged, melee, etc. techniques and equipment that we just haven't found yet (e.g. in The Missing Artist quest).

Remember also what Kinak said on the most recent podcast, namely that there's a lot we don't know right now about the high end of combat. Stealth might also be balanced by high-end ranged, melee, etc. techniques and equipment that we just haven't found yet (e.g. in The Missing Artist quest).

Interestingly, some of the balance feedback I've gotten recently is how powerful Etheric is compared to Stealth.

I'm a fan of the definition "balance is when everybody complains that everyone else is broken." I don't recall who said it, but it's kind of stuck with me.

Cheers!
Kinak

1)Equipment that adds to melee and ranged have other bonuses, as Kinak has stated that melee and ranged are the "primary" attack types, and the others are intended as flavor. Fire Power generally brings nothing more than a penalty to Fire Defense, and Etheric will often have a penalty to Will. However, if you look at the gear that gives the best stealth power, it actually rather consistently provides modest levels of power or defense to something.

2) It's actually not particularly hard to develop a 4 or 5 technique chain that's effective, given that, with a difference of 10 between best offense and best defense, even an attack that is power 4 is at least 14 damage. For example:

Assuming that the attacker has max +stealth power (+21) and the defender has max stealth defense (+11) with all other stats equal, stating MINIMUM possible damage:

(6) Dirty Trick: 8 base damage as opener +10 stealth): 18
(5) Fuming Acid: 8 base damage (assuming the defender's opener isn't ranged or melee) +10 stealth: 18
(4) Dirty Pool: 3 base damage +10 stealth: 13
(3) Acid Splash: 6 base damage +10 Stealth: 16

With that 4 technique chain, you do 65 damage, with 36 of it in the first two hits, only using stealth. If you want, you can add on a switchblade for a an additional 3+10 damage to bump the total to 78.

Even without the switchblade, if you have:

16 Will & Str, you're dead after two attacks.
29 Will & Str, you're dead after three attacks.
Strength and Will of 45, you're dead in the first round.

This is assuming an attacker that has NO extra damage from stats at all. If they've finished the current content, gotten a few more skills, or just leveled more than you, the situation is worse.

Really, what it means is that unless you can kill your stealthy opponent in one attack, you're probably dead.

3) It's possible that there is a wave of Stealth Defense gear out there that will balance it out that we haven't been able to find, and I can appreciate not wanting to add more obvious items to balance it for now when the situation will change once we discover more. However, for now I think PvP is, if not broken, at least unbalanced by this particular issue.

Valliant, if you're looking for a discussion on this with other players, go ahead. But if you're looking for me to change anything, I'd suggest you listen to one of the more recent podcasts or convince someone to transcribe the relevant sections.

Short version: I'd feel like an idiot spending any time balancing PvP. Because adding new content creates a new playing field (be it level or not) and wipes away any progress I may have made balancing PvP anyway.

Cheers!
Kinak

No worries. I know that people will adjust to be able to manage this. It just bothers something inside me to have all the other areas so nicely balance power & defense, and to have stealth so off-kilter.